the gop was ready to fight on this issue but Obama outsmarted them again by saying one of the ways to fiscal responsibility is through health care reform.
When he said that last night he got a standing ovation from both sides of the chamber. |
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Obama's health care reform- when Granny gets to be a bother, cyanide in the oatmeal, pillow over the head, little push down the stairs.
Think of the savings. |
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It's about time. This isn't 1994, and the old tired GOP mantra about 'socialized' medicine won't likely work in this climate of desperation fueled by Bush's Economic Meltdown. |
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Your BDS is showing again and it could push you over the cliff.
Stop, relax, take a deep breath and repeat, yes we can, yes we can, yes we can!
There now, dontcha feel better already?
Thought so! |
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In the midst of an economic crisis, continued expenditures in Iraq and Iran, and a growing national debt...it would be absurd to demand that we not spend another $100 billion a year. Truly insightful. |
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How much are we spending in Iran? |
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Sorry, misstatement. Afghanistan. Sorry that it distracted you from the obvious thrust of my post. |
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sounds like someone who is hoping to get something for nothing. Typical leftist. Force successful and responsible people to turn over their profits to the profligate and irresponsible. Obama is proud of her/him. |
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trusts the government to make her health care decisions for her.
Look how good they have done on everything else, like education and welfare and retirement.
Forgive me if I believe having the government make my health care decisions is the worst of all possible health care systems.
If they like you, you get everything you want, if they dislike you, you might as well be a Christian in Saudi Arabia.
Ignorance demands its own price. |
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I don't trust Bush administration government - think Hurricane Katrina, Iraq War, tainted peanuts. I do trust FDR government and President Obama's government. We NEED government intervention, Eddie, and if you think Jindal's idea of people stepping up to the plate to care for those whose lives were lost or dramatically altered in the devastation of Hurricane Katrina, then you are sadly mistaken. Just look at how the right takes umbrage over having to help the neediest with their taxes to see how someone from Nebraska will feel about helping a poor black family from New Orleans clean up the flood ravaged home they lost to a natural disaster. Picture cherry-picked aid.
The economic nightmare President Bush and the GOP left us with needs more than a hand up from the 95% who are just trying to make ends meet and stay in their homes. Government run well need not look like the Bush/GOP government that failed us so many times over the last 8 years. Measuring by Bush standards - even President Reagan's - is futile. Anything would be better under smart, responsible leadership. |
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with 15 republicans breaking ranks.
Obama wins again.
Raelei-
You cannot argue with a Republican over military spending because their view is spend every cent you have to to win. Even after faced with the soaring costs-remember when the war would cost just 100 billion-they "stayed the course to victory."
Obama is going to proclaim victory in Iraq and let Bush take the credit. On the other hand he is going to continue to name Bush as the main architect for squandering the budget surplus Bush inherited.
That is justice. History Book will most likey give Bush credit as a succeful wartime POTUS but certainly little else. |
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"The economic nightmare President Bush and the GOP left us..."
Not even close. This is the economic nightmare the Democrats gave us.
Print out the following and paste it permanently on your forehead:
“There is a very simple solution: Congress must create a new regulator with powers at least equal to those of other regulators such as OCC or the Federal Reserve.”~ Rep. Ed. Royce (R-Calif.) C-SPAN2
“…through a dozen hearings where frankly we were trying to fix something that wasn’t broke. We do not have a crisis at Freddie Mac and particularly at Fanny Mae under the outstanding leadership under Frank Raines.~Rep. Maxine Waters, (D, Calif.). C-SPAN2
“This [hearing] is about the political lynching of Franklin Raines.”~Rep. Lacy Clay,(D-Missouri) C-SPAN2.
“I don’t see anything that raises safety or soundness problems and it does not serve to raise safety and soundness as a kind of a general shibboleth when it does not seem to be an issue.”~Barney Frank, (D-Mass.) C-SPAN2. |
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even the conservatives in UK favor such a plan. We ration now based on income. Sorry, that's wrong. Can't wait to see you Christians justify denying people health care because they are not 'responsible' or they are 'poor'. |
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but not for the rest of us? Who says that the government will make decisions? Single pay is not government control of anything except the cost. There is no reason why 6 hours in any outpatient facility should cost, as it does here in LA, $30,000. Not one reason. |
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"bravo for national health care
even the conservatives in UK favor such a plan."
Chloe that comment displays an ignornace of the health care industry in the UK that only Raelei could probably outdo.
I bet you have never even seen a UK NHS (National Health Service) hospital have you? You know nothing of how so deeply entrenched in the fabric of society the NHS is in the UK that every politician has no choice but to embrace it. It's a monster too big to kill.
It is THE classic example of socialist large government gone wild and displaying all the inefficiency it can possibly muster. It's a shambles, overrun with middle-management and government interference.
You have no clue how health care is even more rationed by income in the UK do you? Those with decent incomes pay for private health care or get it from their employer. It's the ONLY way to get prompt treatment. Those who rely on the NHS often have to wait months and years for treatment for the most basic things. Do you know what National Insurance is? About 9.5% if i recall - out of EVERYONES pay packet - there's your "free" health care for you. You have no clue what's coming have you? I do.
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per year for our plan, 20% is ours to pay of the total bill, plus $4500 pp deductibles, $60 copays, and the like. Last year, we had two minor surgeries, one each. Hubby was in hospital 6 hours, I was in for 5. His total: $30,000. Mine: $27,000, just for the facility. That is nuts.
This system isn't working. If you've got one that will, great. Otherwise, you lose the right to object. You have to have ideas, not just negate everything. |
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"There is no reason why 6 hours in any outpatient facility should cost, as it does here in LA, $30,000. Not one reason."
No, there are a thousand and one reasons. This is why we can't let clueless liberals like you anywhere near our health care system. You have absolutely zero comprehension of running anything other than your Bush-deranged mouths. You wouldn't know a balance sheet from a hole in the ground. |
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My father was a doctor, my father in law is a doctor. There is NO reason why things cost this much, why a friggin IME costs thousands. When I was a kid, I needed a chest xray for some school thing. Because my dad was a doctor, I went in front of everyone in the ER other than the most difficult triages. That was 'rationing', meaning I got put to the front of the line because of who I knew. Nutty then, nutty now. The rich do not deserve better care. And frankly, I'm rich.
p.s. numbnut, I voted twice for Bush, a shame that my sons remind me about every day. He was supposed to be an adult.
Somehow, my relatives in a remote part of Sicily get great health care. They are not rich. My neighbor's mother is retired in Denmark--she lives a life of dignity, unlike many of our old people.
You've lost the fight on healthcare, and it isn't just liberals fighting you. You have had decades to fix the problems, you don't. You have lost. Vote with your feet if you do not like the fix. There should be economies of scale--Kaiser does it fine. No reason why the rest of us cannot have that kind of care.
Oh, and one more thing....medicine should not be 'for profit'. It should be a utility. We ration based on availability, the rich always get the care. We'll just ration based on availability, this time based on need. No, you might have to wait for your colonoscopy. Sorry. |
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Chloe - compared to the UK system the US system is working just fine. Do you have any clue what the waiting lists are like just for treatment over there?
Of those patients referred to a hospital by their doctor 37% were still waiting to be seen for the first time after a month. That's just to be seen for diagnosis/tests etc not waiting for actual surgery/treatment.
Of those patients waiting for admission to hospital for inpatient treatment 24% have been waiting for more than 2 months.
I'm betting you had your minor surgeries right when it suited you didn't you? Quickly, efficiently and with the highest standard of care in the world.
9.5% National Insurance across the board. Income tax rates that will blow your mind and you think yo are paying a lot now. Just think how many more government busy bodies you are going to have to pay for on top of the existing health care system...you think they are going to come for free. Just wait until we all pay the same amount and the poorest among us get hosed for their share. Just wait until youtr socialist masters decide we "rich" people have to pay their share as well...you have no idea what you are advocating.
I am not negating anything other than your apparent want to fix something that isn't broken. It's not perfect but the alternative that you propose certainly doesn't work.
And the day you can tell me I lose the "right to object" to anything will be a cold day in hell missy.
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Elections have consequences and all Lexrst can do now is object. As we have seen objections will do little to hinder Obama.
Lex can have his opposition and you will get the universal healthcare you extoll.
Smile. You won.
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Again, you exhibit no comprehension of business and how much things actually "cost". You don't have any understanding of the liabilty issues and insurance costs associated with providing health care do you? You appear to know nothing of how much those hospitals cost to build run and operate.
I also have medical people in my family...including one of the most prominent surgeons and medical innovators in his field. So what. It doesn't change the fact that this health care system is the best in the world. I spent 36 years under the UK health care system...I already voted once with my feet and I won, thanks.
You have no idea what you are talking about. The rich always get the care in the UK too. They pay for it and go to entirely separate facilities where they get seen when they want. Private health care hospitals are not open to the public over there. they won't let you in unless you are already a "member". It's a massive two tier system over there. The "not ricH" have to make do with the crappy old NHS places, open wards, rampant infections, lousy care if any at all.
Funny you should mention Sicily. I had a friend who took one OTC painkiller there and it nearly killed her because it contained things banned elsewhere that can provoke seizures in asthmatics.
Denmark...have you any idea of the tax rates in Denmark? Mean income tax rate is about 50% higher than here in the UK. If you want cradle to grave support go ahead and vote with yor feet too. I don't. I want to be free enough to decide what I spend MY money on.
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"Elections have consequences...Smile. You won."
You have no idea just how much we all lost do you?
You'll learn...go ask a Brit. Any Brit you want, they will all, to a man, woman and child tell you how much their health care system stinks. You have no idea. |
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"Any Brit ... will ... tell you how much their health care system stinks."
Also ask them how much they PAY for it, and compare that to the more than twice as much that we pay for ours.
They've chosen to pay less and get less; we've chosen to pay a lot more and get a little more. |
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"Last year, [I] had minor surgery.......
Did your husband have a lobotomy also?? |
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Bob...so what if the Brits pay less, if the coverage sucks they pay to much. Do your homework and go ask one. They hate their health care.
Universal health care may be coming but we will not like it. In fact it will work as well as social security, bankrupt and inefficient.
Why not take the few Americans that don't have insurance and provide coverage for them and leave the rest of us the h*ll alone?
Answer; because it's not about health care, its about control.
Get ready to be controlled Bob.
Bend over and grab the ankles.
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What needs to be reformed is the ridiculous malpractice insurance that doctors and hospitals must pay for the massive claims made against them each and every year. A surgeon cannot pay upwards of $150,000 a year for insurance and then get paid $2,000 for a surgery. As long as lawyers are running the show these costs will never go down. Physicians are also having to hire more staff as pre-certification for almost everything is enormously time consuming. Medicaid patients must stop using the emergency room for their regular care as they want to come at their convenience. These people who show up for non emergencies should be charged. Illegals are running up bills for services and the rest of us have to pay for them. There are plenty of ways that money could be saved in the health care system that could avoid Universal Health Care. |
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...soylent green is people. |
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I don't need to ask anybody in Britain about anything - I lived there over 30 years. I know the system and I know how much it sucks.
No they haven't "chosen" to pay half as much as us. That's a complete fallacy. Because of the way they are taxed and the National Insurance they pay (even when they opt out and go private) they pay a helluva lot for a lousy inefficient system.
And they didn't "choose" to pay for it. It's taxation only...no voluntary payment unless you go private. The system is so deeply entrenched in the society they have no choice if they can't afford to pay for private.
Since the introduction of private health care in the UK in the 1950s the number of people enrolled continues to double every decade. If the NHS is so good why are people running from it at an exponential rate? More than 10% of the population now uses private health care (but still has to pay for the NHS too).
You do also realize that average wages in Britain are way lower than they are here? Low wages, high taxation, no "choice" about paying for health care whether you use it or not and a system whose infrastructure and staffing are collapsing....yeah, it's a great system. One no-one here has any clue about.
I promise you anybody familiar with hospital treatment in the US would be shocked to the core if they had to spend a week in an NHS hospital. |
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Canada is gorgeous !! Good people ! Hospitable !
Don't get sick on your visit. Fair warning!
Hope for the best and take your insurance card. They will send a big bill.
It's not uncommon to look the other way when an old soul becomes ill by inches until there's
nothing that can be done. Check out the "assisted living" or "unassisted dying"facilities. It was time, they say . Maybe the next "time"will be "their" time .
Socialized medicine? Shovel "at" the ready!
Hey B.O.... still funny?
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"No they haven't "chosen" to pay half as much as us."
Of course they have. If the ratepayers demanded that the government DOUBLE the spending on health care and raise their taxes to cover it, that would happen in a flash. They chose not to make that demand.
"If the NHS is so good why are people running from it at an exponential rate? More than 10% of the population now uses private health care"
Ten percent is a very low number. It's not at all surprising that the 10% richest of the population would choose something better than the level of care offered to the lowest 90%.
"You do also realize that average wages in Britain are way lower than they are here?"
Of course, but the UK spends 7.8% of their GDP on health care, as contrasted to our 15.2%. The fact that our wages are higher than theirs makes that even more damning of our system.
My point remains: you cannot compare the current UK system to what our health care would be like under the same system; we spend TWICE AS MUCH as they do. Who knows what their system would be like if they spent as much on it as we do on ours. |
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I have a great deal of issues with the government controlling everything in our lives and the main issue is their incompetence. When has the government or a government agency been efficient and effective? So, to hand over something as important as our healthcare to these incompetents spells a disaster waiting to happen. Many doctors have already said they won’t participate, so that means Congress will force them through new laws to make them participate in the Government controlled healthcare program. And they will do just that, because they did it to every other government program. Remember Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae? They created laws that forced mortgage companies to give home loans to people who didn’t have the recourses or capital to pay them back. Do you want them now screwing up you medical healthcare? Have them decide what medical protocol should be taken or have a lifesaving procedure that they’ve deemed to expensive?
I can see the writing on the walls, wherein they will screw up this as they have screwed up housing, motor vehicles, education and anything else that they deemed needed their input and assistance. As Obama puts his stamp on the charade and expecting a detailed report on how he plans to accomplish his wish list of government infractions the democrats are known for, it’s me now who has the shiver going up my leg. And, if the liberals in this Country believe THIS President will finally get it right, there’s an opening at Belleview Psychiatric Ward and the spots open for you. You clearly are delusional and have taken a psychedelic and/or recreational drugs that have warped your mind. Just say no.
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So, when Mrs. Clinton made the suggestion back in 1993, the public spoke out and said no, we don’t want this. With our current 111th Congress, these people no longer care what the citizens of this Country no longer want to pay for this liberal crap; their answer seems to be too bad we’re doing it anyway. The same thing with the illegals and they most likely will seek some amendment or line that grants illegal rights, when this Congress already knows that the public doesn’t want it. They really don’t care what we want or don’t want. There answer seems to be too bad your getting it anyway, whether you like it or not. |
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Economies of scale. Doctors not making huge salaries, having just a job. Our current system--where the very poor and others without insurance go to the ER and get treated, then don't pay the bill, go into bankruptcy etc, and the rich get whatever they want, leaving the middle finding costs ridiculous and out of control---this isn't working. We ration in our own ways...not everything is critical, not everything demands the cutting edge.
A nationalized system will reduce the insurance and 'liability' issues, fold it into the system. Do you seriously suggest that doctors should not be responsible for their failures? Everyone knows it costs a lot for malpractice insurance...if you can't make a go of your practice with it, then vote with your feet and work in some other profession. Most doctors do quite well.
Good for you having left the UK system. I have friends and close family there, and yes, they don't get a doctor's appointment immediately for routine things, but they are not being left to die when the illness is acute.
David Cameron is hardly a 'marxist', yet he is one of the biggest supporters of the NHS. So maybe stop spreading nonsense horror stories. Somehow, our seniors get taken care of by Medicare. Expand Medicare then. Is that ok for you?
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different than power, water, roads, cops?
I'm not surprised that you'd bring up some friend who nearly died of some OTC pill....that isn't a function of the NHS, that's a function that our FDA handles. No one is suggesting that our FDA would be dissolved.
Yes, of course taxes are high in Denmark. But they are high here...I pay in excess of 40% state and federal (not even including local and property taxes). I also pay ridiculous health insurance premiums in after tax dollars. So stop scaring people about apples vs. oranges. If you don't have to pay huge health insurance bills with post tax income, a few % raise in your income tax will not be a big deal. And you don't have to constantly worry about what happens if you are on the hook for 20% of a $100,000 hospital charge on top of your taxes and health insurance payments.
I suggest you move again to someplace that lets you keep all of your money. Then you can buy your own police, fire, sewage, trash, power, water, etc, private services just as you want medical coverage to be private. So shortsighted and self-centered.
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"I suggest you move again to someplace that lets you keep all of your money. .... just as you want medical coverage to be private."
Where did I say that I wanted health care to be private? What I have said is that the British NHS is broken and is a poorly run system. Moving towards such a government run system would be a disaster. There are middle grounds.
"Do you seriously suggest that doctors should not be responsible for their failures?"
Yes I believe they should...just try it when it's a government run system though. Been there & done that. The problem comes from the ambulance chasers here - do you think they will go away when it becomes socialized?
I'm not saying there are not problems in our system but your main gripe appears to be cost....you will get what you pay for and when you have to pay for a whole other layer of goverment bureaucracy the quality of the service you receive will plummet.
I'd suggest you read this. He can explain the problem better than I can...start at para 7 (the rest is irrelevant to the health care issue).
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/2744289/Altern ative-medicine-for-the-NHS.html
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that is an article from 2001. Even David Cameron recognizes the need for, and value of, NHS in the UK.
Whatever gets established in the US will of course be a hybrid. But everyone will be entitled to basic health care without putting their families in hock. Basic, as I would define it, will include annual checkups and tests (mammograms/paps for women, comparable tests for men), vaccinations, etc. Medicine will become more of a commodity, yes, but for most of us, that is what it is. There will likely be limits on recovery from tort claims, too. Obama will take on all critics, from all sides.
Our current system is broken. Not just cost wise, but that is certainly right at the top. You were right, btw--neither of our surgeries last year were urgent, but we were taken in right away. A few months wait does not hurt most. |
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congress broke it. The blame can be put at the door of government. They've over regulated the health care industry and driven most of the providers out.
Then they turned the trial lawyers loose. It cost 30k for a visit to the emergency room, Cloe, because Dr.'s now have to provide every test known to man or risk facing you in a court room. Ask your dad about that one.
The feds have been incrementally inching the private sector out of the health care business so they can declare a crisis and move in. I've been watching it happen for 20 years.
This is the perfect storm for marxists and they're useful idiots. You will not like state rationed health care.
If we can build great, cost efficient, fuel efficient cars we most certainly could build the worlds best health care delivery system.
Wait, we've done both and the government is screwing it up as we speak. |
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"This system IS working
Chloe - compared to the UK system the US system is working just fine. Do you have any clue what the waiting lists are like just for treatment over there?
Of those patients referred to a hospital by their doctor 37% were still waiting to be seen for the first time after a month. That's just to be seen for diagnosis/tests etc not waiting for actual surgery/treatment.
Of those patients waiting for admission to hospital for inpatient treatment 24% have been waiting for more than 2 months."
What is it with you and waiting lists?? Are your seriously suggesting that national health care is not a good idea because of waiting lists?
Further, this tired "waiting list" crap has nothing to do with insurance. Even with the best insurance, Doctors offices or clinics get backed up all the time and may require several months to get in to see a physician.
You need to find a new talking point to argue your point.
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"No, there are a thousand and one reasons. This is why we can't let clueless liberals like you anywhere near our health care system. You have absolutely zero comprehension of running anything other than your Bush-deranged mouths. You wouldn't know a balance sheet from a hole in the ground"
But Lerx cannot think of any of the thousand and one reasons; cuz it hurts Lerx's head to think to hard about stuff. |
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"Again, you exhibit no comprehension of business and how much things actually "cost". You don't have any understanding of the liabilty issues and insurance costs associated with providing health care do you? You appear to know nothing of how much those hospitals cost to build run and operate.
I also have medical people in my family...including one of the most prominent surgeons and medical innovators in his field. So what. It doesn't change the fact that this health care system is the best in the world. I spent 36 years under the UK health care system...I already voted once with my feet and I won, thanks.
You have no idea what you are talking about..."
Self-righteous; thy name is Lerxus. |
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"I can see the writing on the walls, wherein they will screw up this as they have screwed up housing, motor vehicles, education and anything else that they deemed needed their input and assistance"
What are you even talking about??? You are blathering on about how the government has "screwed" up motor vehicles...what is it your suggesting then? That we privatize the DMV? Explain that to me brain-child.
Your trite comments make you sound like a first class rube. Try and stay informed with relevant information. |
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But you have been shut down by Chloe and Bob and you have nothing. All your blabbing on about how the UK health system is soooo bad with their low wages and the long waiting lists and the pill your friend took and died and you lived in the UK so you know, blah, blah, blah. Every one of your disengenuous statements have all be debunked in less than a hour... |
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Bunk. He is going to insure illegal aliens. After that, watch the influx across the border, unless, by then, Mexico is more wealthy than the USA. |
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On the Bill O'reilly show las t night, there was a snippet of Alan Keyes saying that Barack Is a Communist and there won't be a country left if he is allowed to continue what he's doing with this spending spree. Mr. Keyes also has a case pending on Obama's eligibility to even be President.
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Plus, on WorldNetDaily a RETIRED MAJOR GENERAL JOINS BHO'S eligibility case.
Major general says president's eligibility needs proof. On the heels of two active duty members of the U.S. military serving in Iraq calling for President Obama to prove his eligibility to be president, a retired major general has agreed to join the case, saying he just wants "the
truth."
Read the latest now on WND.com:
http://wnd.com/index.phpfa=PAGE.view&pageId=90125
This might be too little too late, but at least isn't isn't going away, and shouldn't until it is settled satisfactorily with the American public. |
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"Alan Keyes Calls Obama a Communist!"
If you're judging your own level of insanity by comparing yourself to Alan Keyes, you're in for a real contest. Don't despair; there's an excellent chance you're crazier than he is. |
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You know, the one on WND who has also joined in the fight to force Obama to prove his eligibility? Is he crazy too? You seem to think anyone who wnats the Constitution adhered to is crazy. Me thinks perhaps you protest too much! Perhaps you're the crazy one...or at least brainwashed. |
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"how about the General? ... Is he crazy too?"
Could well be. There are some pretty whacko generals out there. I've worked with some real crazies myself, and those were guys still on active duty. Lord knows what became of them when they retired and started hanging around the house all day. |
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you just don't care whether he has a valid birth certificate or not. You don't care about the Constitution being upheld. You don't care about anything that is good, decent or right because... YOU ARE A LIBERAL! That syas it all. YOu people only care about your socialistic agendas being put forth, and screw everyone and everything else, eh? Well to hell with you all! And know this..I will harp on this subject until Mr. deceit himself proves WHO he really is, so get used to it. |
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I just wanted to pass along some startling new analysis of the upcoming spending programs of Mr. Obama. It's very scary. With the nation in the worst economic crisis since the "Great Depression", Mr. Obama has just given America $3.3 trillion dollars in new tax hikes with the "Stimulus Bill" and it's "hidden protocol's". Now we find he is insistent on raising even more taxes, as outlined in a newsletter below. The vast bulk of these tax hikes are welfare, much of it is designed to be given to those who aren't even citizens, while some will go to "pet projects" as a reward to those who supported him. One of the largest is the "New Global Warming Tax", with their associated "Carbon Credits", that will be levied on everyone and given to the U.N. to spend as they "deem appropriate" to combat the "supposed and erroneous Global Warming problem", that Al Gore expects to become a Billionaire from, as an "entrepreneur" in "carbon Credits". Where do you think these new taxes are going to come from? Out of your hide of course! I personally don't have the kind of money he's going to be telling everyone they are going to have to "pony-up". I suspect everyone else who has worked for a living, doesn't either. Of course, being a Communist and having never once worked for a living, Mr. Obama has no regard for these facts!
In addition, the newsletter below outlines the new spending (taxes) Mr. Obama has just proposed in the last few days. To further add "fuel to the fire" of inflation and further economic downturn, in addition to this he has proposed a new budget for 2010 (begins October 1, 2009), with a 1 trillion dollar tax increase on the citizens of this nation. The budget for 2009 was 2.3 trillion dollars and his new budget calls for $3.6+ trillion. (AND YOUR THOUGHT IT COULDN'T GET ANY WORSE!) |
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"you just don't care whether he has a valid birth certificate or not."
He does. He was born in Hawaii.
Keep bringing the crazy. |
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HAVE "YOU" SEEN A COPY OF THE "ORIGINAL" BIRTH CERTIFICATE? Don't like now! |
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"HAVE "YOU" SEEN A COPY OF THE "ORIGINAL" BIRTH CERTIFICATE?"
That's it; USE the Caps Lock key. Hold it down hard and really mash those keys.
Now try for the long-form rants, say fifty-sixty lines without any punctuation. Work that craziness you have deep inside you; let it all out. |
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from the subject at hand as you always do. You can't or won't answer the question because you know it will incriminate you, as providing his original birth certificate will incriminate Obama. If you can't substantiate a claim, you shouldn't make it. So tell us if you've seen the original birth certificate with your own eyes, or stop your lying. |
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"That's it, Munck - divert the attention from the subject at hand as you always do."
No, no, I'm trying to get you more attention, help you build an audience, nay a FAN BASE. The masses love watching people have an emotional or mental melt-down in public; that's why reality shows are so popular.
So come on -- hit that Caps Lock key and tell us why you're convinced that Obama was born in Kenya! |
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and type it real slow so you can understand it
h a v e y o u s e e n o b a m a ' s
b i r t h c e r t i f i c a t e w i t h y o u r o w n e y e s ???
Can you answer that question with any substantial proof?
And as far as the caps, I thought it might get your attention and you would actually answer the question, but I guess that's asking too much, eh? seeing how you libs are better at dodging the questions than answering them.
And to answer your question; I saw a woman in a video gleaned by an associate of Phillip Berg, attorney at law, who claimed to be his aunt, and another who claimed to be his grandmother say that they knew he was born in Kenya because they were present at the time of the birth. I saw a document on a website that was of a registration into the first grade (in Indonesia - he doesn't deny it!) for Obama that claimed his name was Barry Sotero, and another document on another website that was an application by his stepfather for his adoption, again (in Indonesia.) He doesn't deny that either!
Now, I want to make this really clear; I do not know for a fact that Obama was not born in Hawaii, but I do know that he will not provide an original birth certificate for the American people. You do not know for a fact that he was born in Hawaii and you offer no proof he was. I don't know for a fact that those women were telling the truth, or were in fact, even related to him, and you don't know that they weren't. So, my claim that he is not elgiible to be President due to the fact no one has seen an original birth certificate is a legitimate one. If you can't back up your claim that he has that original birth certificate in his possession, do not accuse me of making things up anymore than you are making them up, or admit to making them up yourself. And answer the question as to why he won't provide that birth certificate from Hawaii if you can! |
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Liberal play book
1) Lie
then when challenged
2) Insult you personally
when that does not work
3) divert
and if you keep at them
4) hide and hope the subject goes away
Bob is on phase III, or possibly IV.
I have never said Obama is not a US citizen. But the birth certificate he has provided is unlike anyone I have ever seen. Maybe they leave off most of the details on birth certificates in Hawaii? |
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"4) hide and hope the subject goes away"
Seriously, I want this subject to stay around forever. I want you and Brookit to continue to rant and rave.
Did you know that Obama has secretly asked the Supreme Court to quash all future lawsuits about this? This was revealed in an email sent to Phillip J. Berg, attorney at law, by a law clerk who is secretly a conservative. (He concealed this fact to escape the purges of right-wingers that went on in all government agencies WHILE OBAMA WAS GIVING HIS INAUGURATION SPEECH.) Wise up, Sheeple! |
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is not to rant and rave; but to not anwswer a pertinent question is to dodge, as do all liberals who have something to hide, ie, your boy Barack HUSSEIN (oops there go those darned caps again) Obama. |
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Okay, not to interrupt this duel you two seem to be having, but aren't we kind of straying from the point? The point here is supposed to be that Obama is throwing around money he doesn't have. I started reading the comments posted but gave up after a while when it seemed to become just a back and forth between you two.
When it comes to the subject of this article: A lot of people don't have good health care. It's sad. But it doesn't mean everyone else in the country should have to foot the bill. It's sad that some kids in the country aren't covered, but it's their parents responsibility to take care of them, not ours. It seems to me that a lot of people who have no health care never put much thought into what to do themselves. They just expected others to take care of them, and now that they see that no one is going to do it willing they're demanding it.
If someone has worked hard all their life and recently lost their coverage through no fault of their own, they should look to family and friends for help. I think people are responsible for taking care of themselves, but if a good person needs help, I'd be more than willing to open my wallet for them. But it will be my choice to do it, not the government's. |
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DO THE MATH YOURSELF !
Today OBAMA announced that we have to have FED control: (rationing) of health care because
OUR PRESENT SYSTEM bankrupts someone every single second ! HUH ???????
I have yet to meet or know anyone who went bankrupt under our present health care system.
I lost 3 siblings in prolong cancer ultimate deaths, etc. THEIR insurance paid every dime of treatment: and we are a middle class family NOT the rich who make $250,000 with both spouses working !
Medicare pays the seniors health care needs
can't be many of them:
the illegals have free health care can't be many of them who go bankrupt
the poorest of the poor have medicaid so it can't be many of them
the mega millionaires and billionaires that 2% have enough cash to pay for their medical bills:
every government employee, teachers, etc. and every union member have incredible health care so it cannot be them:
WHO are these millions and millions of folks who go bankrupt every second under our present health care system ?
NOT ONE GOP leader calls this liar on his obscene lies :
why is that ?
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anyone who says that it cost them 30,000 a half day to be in the hospital, needs a "DIFFERENT TYPE OF HOSPITAL" called a MENTAL WARD !
anyone who claims it cost them 27,000 just to use the "facility" needs a "DIFFERENT TYPE OF FACILITY" ! |
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Gov. employees and retired which is about 60% of the work force and retired: (includes teachers, police, firemen, etc. HAVE incredible health care and certainly never go bankrupt seeking treatment
UNIONS and retired union workers: about 30% of the entire work force and retired have incredible medical benefits and zero of them ever go bankrupt seeking medical treatment
the poorest of the poor: those 40 million have FREE medicaid health care and doubt they go bankrupt
the seniors have medicare and doubt they go bankrupt
military have the VA doubt they go bankrupt
Most blue chip company employees have incredible health care: and doubt any of them every go bankrupt seeking medical treatment:
SO that leaves the self employed, and small business owners who generally are not insured.
And there is a % who can afford insurance but refuse to participate to help pay for free abortions, full body transplants, illegals, etc.
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"I have yet to meet or know anyone who went bankrupt under our present health care system."
You've been extraordinarily fortunate. About half of the bankruptcies in this country are related to health care costs. And half of those are people who actually had health insurance.
But don't concern yourself with these people; they're poor, old, sick; they're not your kind. A different class, and some of them have a different color skin. Not your concern. |
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I look at trhis a bit differently .three years ago my wife was diagnosed with an agressive form of breast cancer,we had insurance it did not come close to covering our expenses we went in the hole for around 100k our hospital worked out reasonable pay plan and she is well on the way to being cancer free .it has been a tremendous finacial burden but manageable . that said you would probably assume i would be very pro national healthcare . i am not a quick look at the treatment procedures in canada and the u.k. show horrendously low survival rates .managed care is rationed care , based on people in canada and the u.k. whom i've talked with tmy wife would have not gotten the immediate care that her condition required and i would not have her . our system needs reworking but nationalized healthcare would be disatrous .
white salamander you would have been on crutches at least a year in canada . i have family near winnepeg and they have lots of horror stories about canadian health care service . |
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".it has been a tremendous finacial burden but manageable ."
Might there be people in this country for whom it would not have been manageable?
"i have family near winnepeg and they have lots of horror stories about canadian health care service ."
Everybody has horror stories about American health care service. And Canadians pay a lot less than we do. |
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I understand that liberals think they are trying to help but when are they going to realize that their ideas don't work? American's don't want a welfare state. And what's the deal with setting aside $634 Billion for a downpayment? Aren't we in the middle of a recession? Didn't he say we need to start spending now to stimulate the economy? Why would he put that much money into savings for something we don't want anyways? Seems irresponsible to me.
http://www.deconstructingthenews.com/2009/02/25/obama-budge t-to-spend-634-billion-on-health-care/ |
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FACT: absolutely everyone has health care:
FACT: less than 2% do not have HEALTH INSURANCE
Obama wasted 2 trillion to save 25 jobs in OHIO
Obama will waste the entire treasure of this nation to "INSURE" less than 2% of the citizens:
THE POOR
The ILLEGALS
The poor children
ALL HAVE unlimited health "CARE" through medicaid, SCHIPS and or by just showing up at the emergency center door:
MY grandparents had "ASPRIN" as their health care and they "survived" and "thrived" without druggie communist dicatator Obama's destruction of wealth program to line the pockets of those who elected him. |
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all of you liberal parasites, welfare leeches who live on the internet;
give up your internet access fees, cable TV, Ipods, face lifts, junk food and get a job to pay your bills like everyone else does |
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the report just released stated that BKY just
increased to about 1 million
NO IDEA WHERE YOU ARE getting your numbers
Those numbers were released by the "COURTS"
not the lying liberal extremists !
AND the majority of them were because folks were living beyond their means: |
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ok
you said 1.4 million filed bky:
you said half were because of medical bills
then you said 2 million file bky every year because of obscene health care costs
the you said 700,000 kids filed BKY because of health care costs
FACT every POOR child gets free health care
1. medicaid
2. SCHIPS
FACT: every illegal gets free health care by showing up in the emergency room
OUR health care costs are OBSCENE because Illegals do not pay: their expenses are passed on to those who do pay: |
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1. get rid of the slip and fall "LIARS" aka lawyers and their lying parasite clients
2. get rid of the Liar ambulance chasers like Lying cheating John Edwards and his lying parasite clients.
3. stop FREE medical care to every illegal and their broods of relatives who cross the borders JUST FOR FREE HEALTH CARE
BUILD THOSE FENCES ! |
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"FACT: less than 2% do not have HEALTH INSURANCE"
According to the US Census Bureau in 2008, it's 15.3%, 46 million people.
http://www.census.gov/prod/2008pubs/p60-235.pdf page 20.
When you read something like this, something that tells you that your knowledge of the world around you is grossly incorrect, what goes through your mind? Do you not see it at all, just blur it out? Do you immediately decide that it's all a media/liberal/hippie conspiracy? Do you see it but then quickly forget it and go back to your insanities? |
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President Obama wants Healthcare reform and it frightens me that a Democratic government will try to get him what he wants as quickly as possible. I truly believe the only way we can have the slimmest chance of having a workable system is by starting a nationwide petition to have our legislators include themselves (i.e., Senators and Representatives),their dependents, and all Civil Service workers, and their dependents under the same program they will craft for us. |
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